How To Protect Your Fertility & Health From Cell Phone Exposure with Lloyd Burrell – #13

0:27 Charlene Lincoln: Welcome back to another episode of The Fertility Hour. Today, I have Mr. Lloyd Burrell. Let me just introduce him. In the early ‘90s, Lloyd left the hustle and bustle of London to live a more peaceful life in a small village on the west coast of France. Okay, that sounds so romantic and beautiful. Some 10 years later over the course of a few short days, he developed highly debilitating symptoms when using his cellphone, computer, and all types of electromagnetic devices in his home and workplace. When his doctors and the medical community drew a complete blank, Lloyd set out to find his own solutions. He has made it his mission to raise awareness about the dangers of electromagnetic fields, otherwise known as EMFs, and share the remarkable discoveries he has made on his quest to recover his health. Lloyd writes for numerous magazines and websites. He hosts a bimonthly podcast on EMFs and health, and is a regular guest on radio shows and other events. He is the author of the ebook Long Term EMF Protection which offers solutions to the growing numbers of people whose health is being compromised by exposure to wireless and similar technologies. You can download his free EMF health report at his website Electricsense.com, and that of course will be in the podcast notes.

Welcome, Lloyd. Thanks so much for being here. I have a lot of questions for you. Wireless technology, we’re just surrounded by it. It’s the air we breathe at this point. And a lot of us are kind of in the dark about the effects of it because unlike you, many of us aren’t having these debilitating symptoms so we’re going, “Well, maybe it affects other people different than us.” I guess in a sense we’re all sort of like guinea pigs to the wireless industry where a lot of people are going, “Well, the research isn’t there yet that this is harmful or not.” Actually, I live right outside the San Francisco. Mayor Gavin Newsom was the only mayor I think in the world that required wireless industries to, what is it, to put a rating on cellphones and other wireless devices.

Lloyd Burrell: Yeah, pretty cool. It’s a start. I’m just not quite sure on that. Debilitating symptoms, yeah, I know all about that. I’m very fortunate in that I no longer have those. But that’s really how it all started with me and that’s what opened my eyes to this because as you say, I was living in this idyllic setting and it is very beautiful where I live. I live between the ocean and the forest. It’s a little sleepy town, it’s a little bit too sleepy in fact in this time of year. But it’s a beautiful place and I love it and I love nature. In a sense, I was living the dream because I left London with my wife. My wife’s French, that’s why we moved to France. I was living the dream. You know, we were shopping down at the farmer’s market. I was working out at the gym, I was jogging down the beach. I was running my own business. My dream was always to run my own business and I was running my own business and things were going very well.

Then, one day in 2002. My business was actually a rental business because we’re on the coast here and it was a rental business. I actually acquired a cellphone in 1998 so it was quite late compared to some people because when I was living in London, in the early ‘90s people were already walking around with these big brick things. And so it was pretty late and one day, what happened in 2002 just out of the blue, I had a reaction to my cell phone. Of course, I thought nothing all of it at the time and what I didn’t realize was that I had a conversation. You know how people say, I’m sure you know this before, I had a conversation on the telephone and it changed my life. And that is exactly what I had except it was nothing to do with the conversation, it was to do with the cellphone.

And literally it changed my life because I had some immediate symptoms and those symptoms, it just kind of spiraled very quickly and I didn’t know what was going on. I went to the doctors eventually after about 3 days. Because it really truly was, in a different conversation, I started to feel something weird kind of not quite sure, seeing stars. A kind of weird spatial thing, a bit headachy. Nothing to get really worried about and then just over the course of a few telephone calls, it became a pain, a headache, and over the course of a few more telephone calls it was literally searing pain when I put the phone next to my ear, what I call a “hot ear”. And then a whole lot of other unpleasant symptoms, immediate symptoms like prickly skin. It wasn’t just the telephone. It was the computer, it was the TV. I got it when I was in the car, I got it when I was down doing the shopping next to the tills. I was getting it everywhere.

So my life became a living hell literally and it was like that for two years. I was really living in denial wondering what the hell was going on. In a way I didn’t want to face up to facts because I was scared. I was scared of facing it because the truth was it seemed as though there were no solutions. So what was the point in really going down that rabbit hole when there didn’t seem to be any solution or any way out? Then I read a newspaper after. I’ve been to the doctor and the doctor couldn’t help me and specialists. I had specialists who just literally ridiculed me because it was so crazy that I’m reacting to my cellphone, a neurologist in fact. Then I read an article in The Daily Telegraph which is quite a high-brow publication in the UK and it was talking about this guy who was CEO of a UK food group and he was so sensitive to his cellphone, he couldn’t use it anymore. He would be taking everything to his secretary. He was driving around in a clapped-out old Volvo. He was switching off the electricity in order to get to sleep. And I thought, “That is me! I’m not the only person on the planet with this,” because literally I thought I was because this was 2002. I was very skeptical about things that was written on the internet but there wasn’t the information that there is now and the internet wasn’t the place that it is now. That is how it all started and that is how this awareness came about and the debilitating symptoms I know all about. I went through all that and I came out to the side and here I am.

8:43 CL: Thanks for sharing that story. I could see how confusing and how isolating that felt because like you said, now you’ve probably heard from thousands of people who they reach out to you and go, “Yeah, I’m experiencing exactly what you are,” instead of feeling like you’re a complete anomaly in this world of high-tech and why can’t you handle it and everyone else can type of thing. Because in my field, I worked with a pediatrician, she literally had to go very, very part-time in her practice and sleep way outdoors, almost camping away from her home because she just couldn’t be around it at all. Of course, you hear it all the time. There’s many, many cases. What really stood out for me, how I came about finding you was that, like many parents, I’m struggling with the screen time thing and my daughter was using an iPad and I knew instinctively I should not be letting her use an iPad. But then I wanted to kind of make it a little bit more solidified of why I should not let my child sit with an iPad. I came across you. You were measuring the radiofrequency, the RFs of the iPad. And she has not been on one since. Now, Christmas came around and little cousins were like, “I got an iPad for Christmas,” and it’s like, “Ugh.” If they only knew. You don’t want to be like is it fringe science at this point and you are kind of like the party pooper. “Oh, you shouldn’t really let your kid use  that,” and because of this, people are like, “Oh gosh, is that really real?”

LB: I’ll just react to that if I can, please.

10:25 CL:  Sure.

LB: So the fringe science, I don’t really agree on that. The thing is, what you have to understand is it’s like big tobacco all over again. The cellphone industry. And this is not something which I’d dwell on because I’m all about solutions because that’s what I devoted my life too actually, is the solutions.

10:49 CL: Yeah, your website is amazing on that and we’ll talk about those tips.

LB: That’s all I talk about is the solutions really and then people are like –

10:57 CL: And it’s not live in a bubble, live in a cave. It’s like live in this world and this is how you can protect yourself. So I love that.

LB: Exactly. Practical everyday solutions, common sense solutions. A lot of it is common sense but some of it is a bit more technical. But just to come back to you on this question of the studies and there are studies, there are thousands of studies which demonstrate adverse biological effects to electromagnetic fields generally. So just to be clear what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about, folks, electromagnetic fields, an invisible force which is pervading all our lives and it can be of the wireless type or the non-wireless type and really what you’re talking, Charlene, mainly here is wireless. And obviously, wireless is huge because it’s just taken over our lives. We’re in a wireless world now. And why are we in a wireless world? Because everybody wants that. Everybody wants this wireless world, everything to be instantaneous and to have instant communications. And there are so many upsides to it but there are many downsides.

What you need to understand is because there’s so much money at stake, the cellphone industry, they’ve already got the roadmap and have to do it because big tobacco did it before and they’ve got the same strategy. The exact same strategy. Except they probably got more money to do it. And there is more at stake because everything, our whole world actually now is, I mean, economically we are dependent on these technologies because every time they bring out – you know we’re moving into the 5G generation. And what is all this about more than anything, it’s just about communication obviously and it’s about progress but it’s also about money because when they sign off these licenses and they’re signing of frequencies, bands of frequency, then it brings in money all over the globe in a great space full of it to all these governments which are desperate because the world is in a constant crisis as it’s now where you hear it all the time, we’re in one constant economic crisis so it’s much about that as anything.

So what is happening is the science is being manipulated as to say the information we’re getting more precisely is being manipulated and the science even itself is being manipulated. There have been comparative studies done on this. You compare the studies, for instance, on gliomas which is a form of brain tumor. If you look at the independent studies, then they’re showing an increased risk of glioma. If you look at the industry-funded studies, then they’re showing no increased risk. So right back to the actual site itself there is manipulation. Then beyond them, for every study that comes out that says cellphones are dangerous, to simplify this, then the cellphone industry, they can publish 10 which show just the opposite. A lot is in the interpretation of these studies. Because studies are pretty dry boring things to read. I don’t know if you have but I read studies on this and it’s not really very passionate reading. It’s heavy-going.

14:23 CL: It’s easier to read little soundbites that you get on the local – like “Oh, this cellphone is safe,” and, “Oh, okay, well then we’re fine for now.”

LB: Right.

14:33 CL: I kind of wanted to bait you with that fringe science. I knew that that would kind of get your heckles up.

LB: So it’s not fringe science. It’s really solid science carried out by eminent scientists and if you people are listening and want to know where to find more information on this, look at the BioInitiative Report – a really great resource on this since 2007, which is kind of a meta study, study of studies and they’re looking at all the studies over the last 30 years, and there are thousands of studies. There are literally on cellphone radiation alone, there are over 6000 studies which cover over 120 adverse biological effects.

15:18 CL: You have many studies on your website as well, right? I mean that’s the resource.

LB: I do.

15:24 CL: Okay, and then people can look at the references and go into it further if they would like to.

LB: Exactly.

15:31 CL: Okay. We’re talking to an audience that is looking to increase their chances of conceiving and having a healthy pregnancy. So let’s discuss the effects of cellphones. It could be cellphones, it could be iPads, things like that on fertility. I love that Tim Ferriss, the 3 month, that’s a great story to talk about as well.

LB: Yeah. Well, I covered the Tim Ferriss story back in 2011 when it came out and of course Tim Ferriss, what he was doing, he was researching for a book which was I think the book which came after his famous book The 4-Hour Workweek. And Tim Ferriss, he was actually interviewing a guy called Charles Poliquin and who’s a well-known strength coach. Charles said to him, “Well, you know, what I’ve noticed is that in the athletes, my clients that I’m working with, the athletes that are walking around with cellphones in their pocket, they have a diminished level of testosterone. He goes, “Yeah, get out of here.”

So he goes, “Okay,” and so Charles then said, “Well, you go look at the literature.” So he went through some of the literature and there it was, the literature is very clear. One hour on a cellphone has a significant effect on the sperm, the quality of sperm, the motility, the direction it’s swimming and a whole lot of other factors. Very, very clear. And so curious, Tim Ferriss went to get his sperm checked and his sperm count was low and so he’s very concerned. So he decided to take matters into his own hands and give this thing a little try with the cellphone. Okay, if it is the cellphone, well, three months without putting a cellphone in his pocket, three months reduced cellphone use and he also took some selenium supplementation as well. So those three things primarily. And what do you know? After three months of doing that, just three months of doing that, he doubled his sperm count. So that is just one instance of it.

But the actual science on the male side, the sperm is actually very clear. Because the cellphone industry, another of their tactics is to talk about cancer. Because cancer is a biggie, it’s a word that as soon as you say it, it makes people fearful and it’s a big scare word. And so cancer is nice for them primarily because of something called latency period and we know this through what happened after the Second World War because it’s very similar what happens with radiation, non-ionizing radiation which is what I talk about, these EMFs, and ionizing radiation like the nuclear bomb, etc. But basically, it works in the same way. It’s just a question of quantity of energy. So the quantity of energy is less but the effects are essentially the same. So the effects of cellphone radiation are very clear and they have been for some time, and what the cellphone industry is trying to do is say “Well look, there’s no hard proof on the cancer,” which is not true. There is proof but at the same time we don’t have cast iron concrete proof which we’d like. And they play on that.

19:37 CL: Like the tobacco back in the day, right?

LB: Like the tobacco, exactly. Whereas with the sperm, it’s really from where I’m sitting, very cut and dried. So there is significant science on this, on the sperm question. So that’s the sperm. The thing is with the sperm, the fortunate thing is that men, they have billions of sperm and they can, say, if they got the cellphones in their pockets, they can take the cellphone out of the pockets and that can correct itself over time, hopefully. With the women, it doesn’t work like that.

So there is an issue with the women. Because you contacted me to do this interview and I actually spent some time looking into this and I started looking into it, and I realized that it’s not very clear what’s going on. I couldn’t find any good information on the internet about this, so I decided to compile my own information. That’s what I want to share with you just very, very briefly. Because there is a lack of clarity on this issue, on this question of does cellphone radiation impact female fertility. So again, the male sperm question, lots of data on that. Okay? Lots of data and it’s pretty clear. The female question, now this is what I found.

Firstly, 2014 studies, researchers measured alpha amylase which is the saliva of women and trying to get pregnant. So this alpha amylase is an enzyme with a known association with stress. What they found was that women with the highest level of this enzyme in their saliva had a 29 percent reduced probability of getting pregnant. So I’m not talking about cell towers or radiation or anything at this point. I’m just talking about this enzyme, alpha amylase. One study. Okay?

Another study, a 2009 study examined people living within a 100-meter radius of cell towers and found that higher level of biochemical stress markers were present, notably alpha amylase. So what I’m saying here is what this is suggesting is that women trying to get pregnant who are exposed to these EMFs, these cell tower radiation or cellphone radiation for that matter, they have approximately, according to these studies, a 30% less chance of getting pregnant. So I’m putting two and two together. These are two different studies and this just indicates perhaps one of the reasons why there isn’t so much clarity about this danger in terms of women.

Another study, if I may very, very quickly, cellphone radiation can burn out, literally burn out the female reproductive system. A 2013 review paper found that EMF exposures related to oxidative stress and overproduction of free oxygen radicals in female and male fertility, so male and female this time.

Then, a 2017 study on animals, so most of the studies are in animals for obvious reasons, but a 2017 study on animals found decreasing antioxidant enzymes in the hypothalamus, ovary, and uterus of mice. A 2009 study found that cellphone radiation exposures can have severe toxic effect on ovaries, notably causing a decrease in the number of follicles

Then we have the question of miscarriage, because that’s the thing. It’s one thing getting pregnant but then you got pregnant and then you get a miscarriage which is horrible, I’m sure. And a 2014 study that found that the fetus is most susceptible to radiation 2 to 7 weeks after conception and in the early fetal period 15 weeks after conception. Then we have – hot off the press, this is literally just before Christmas – from the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Oakland in the US, found that exposures to magnetic fields cause a three times increased risk of miscarriage. Magnetic fields are present in homes, in household wiring and pretty much anything with an electric motor, fridges; anything electrical emits magnetic fields. So three times increased risk of miscarriage when pregnant women are exposed to these magnetic fields.

Another study. UCLA research found double the probability of behavioral problems in children. That’s another one. The autism epidemic, I’m sure you’ve heard about what’s going on with autism. There are strong links between cellphone radiation, Wi-Fi radiation, this wireless radiation. An autism doctor, Dietrich Klinghardt, has done work on this. Dr. Martha Herbert also has done work on this. So there is a lot of information here relating to the impact that it’s having on male and female fertility.

25:42 CL: Thanks for sharing that. A question comes up. How do you know the location of a cellphone tower? Is there maps? Because most of us don’t know where these cell phone towers are.

LB: There are maps in different countries. Now I’m not sure if it’s still in operation, to be honest, in the US but it used to be called Antennasearch.com. But if you just put into Google “cell phone tower map” for instance, if you do a search on that, you can find that. But you can see that and by law, the thing is they can put cell phone towers anywhere. That’s a law that came out in 1996 in the US. They can put them anywhere. There’s nothing you can do about it and they can put it right next to the schools, hospitals, everything. There’s nothing we can do about it, unfortunately. But what you can do is at least know what antennas there are or what frequencies there are. If you’re for instance looking to move into an area or if you’re already living in the area, then that’s obviously a different strategy.

26:56 CL: So let’s talk about some practical tips to help protect ourselves from the radiation that’s essentially everywhere. I mean, what can we really do? I want to talk about iPads too because they’re so popular and beautifully packaged. You know what I mean? There’s so seductive to babies, to older people. I guess back up, let’s talk about iPads because everyone is using them these days.

LB: So iPads, yeah. So there are two issues with iPads in terms of exposures. Radiofrequency, radiation exposures like in cellphone but also magnetic fields. So what’s the difference between an iPad and a cellphone? Well, the obvious thing: it’s bigger. So because it’s bigger, that would indicate that there are more electronics, that they’re a bigger battery, it is emitting a stronger magnetic field. So as I was saying before, anything electrical emits a magnetic field. So we differentiate these, we have to understand these electromagnetic field. So electromagnetic field is a blanket term and then within that, we’ve got these different categories which are radiofrequency, radiation, electric fields, magnetic fields, dirty electricity or intermediary frequencies.

So there are two main issues. In fact, really, an iPad in fact, as most devices, they emit radiation in all those four categories, but there are two main issues. The two main issues are the radiofrequency, radiation and the magnetic fields. Why is it a particular problem with the iPads? Because I don’t have an iPad. Why don’t I have an iPad? Because how do you use an iPad? Well, you have to touch it. You put it on your hand, how do people use it? Look at how people use it. They put it, they walk around with it. So it’s wireless. They can only use it wirelessly or there’s actually a means of using it non-wirelessly but it’s very complicated. So it’s a device which is to be used wirelessly and it’s a device which are designed to be used in close contact with your body. And that is a key thing to understand about EMFs. In fact, if you only understand or remember one thing which I’m saying to you today, then it’s this and it’s very simple and it’s a cute little phrase. The cute little phrase is: distance is your friend. That is to say because of the way the EMFs work, most EMFs work in space exponentially. So that’s to say it’s a non-linear relationship. So that’s to say by gaining just insures that you actually reduce your exposure very significantly. For instance, a cellphone, if you put a cellphone next to your ear compared to, say, 6 inches away, about 15 centimeters away, then the exposures are about 10,000 times less in terms of radiofrequency exposures.

30:31 CL: Wow.

LB: Ten thousand times less. Why? Because it’s about 100 times further away from your brain if you’re holding it at 6 inches and because it’s exponential, so it’s 100 times 100 equals 10,000, obviously it’s very approximate but I’m giving you a notion of how important this is, this little phrase to retain, “distance is your friend”. And so, that is the problem. The key problem, the main problem with these iPads because as you said, they are beautiful, cute, seductive little devices. You can do so much with them and they just look beautiful. I love the internet and my life’s been centered around – before Electric Sense I’ve always been passionate about it, I just think it’s wonderful. But honestly, folks, the iPad is not the way to go, it’s not a safe way to use the internet. And it’s certainly not the way that your kids should be interacting with the internet. So, two things: radiofrequency radiation and magnetic fields.

31:37 CL: And I should emphasize, your kids born and unborn, because I know there is plenty of women who are trying to conceive, they’re holding it, but even pregnant women because I had a good friend who I had to educate, she was literally using her stomach, her pregnant bump as a phone holder to text. She said it was very convenient to hold it there. I was like, “please stop that immediately.” So she kind of got the message. When we were talking about the proximity of cellphones to the head, I mean, then you should bring up the thing about headset devices because there’s air tubes because if you use a regular headset, what’s the issue about that?

LB: Do I use a regular headset?

32:18 CL: I mean with the phones, if you’re using regular earbuds or whatever.

LB: So just to be clear, I walk the talk. I don’t own a cellphone personally.

32:31 CL: I know, I know.

LB: My wife does. Because obviously, we like to travel and when you travel, you need a cellphone. We’ve got kids and you need to stay in contact. But I take my laptop computer with me. But yeah, in terms of recommendations to people that are using a cellphone, so again, back to the thing, everything really goes back to distance is your friend. So we’re looking at ways of creating distance when we’re using this technology. So this is when we’re actually using a cellphone. Well, there’s various ways we can do it. Most people think, well, if they’re thinking about doing it, then perhaps they think to use a speakerphone which is okay (but everybody else is listening into your conversation), not ideal. Plus, an increase in magnetic fields because the speaker is working harder, although that is really not my main concern here but I think it’s because this issue of, well, most people don’t want everybody around to hear what they’re saying, certainly I don’t like listening to other people, I don’t even like listening when people got the cellphone on their head and when they’re speaking loudly I find it very annoying. But yeah, so the speakerphone, yeah, that’s what it is. The next solution is to use regular wired headphones which I don’t advice because we have problems with that in terms of ambient radiation being in this wire acting like an antenna and directing the radiation right up to your head. That’s to say the radiation from your phone and also ambient radiation, so the whole thing is just acting like one big antenna. Not a good idea.

So a better solution is the air tube headset and there are some good ones now because when they first came out, I reviewed a few initially and there were some sound problems. I think it’s the Kinden which I reviewed recently and there’s a review on my website. Which is good, it’s sturdy, it’s good sound quality and it’s as good as, I mean, except if you’re listening to rap music with a hard beat on there, it’s not ideal for that. But for conversing, that’s a good solution.

35:05 CL: Okay. So an air tube headset and then you had spoke about a particular brand of it that you review on your website.

LB: Yeah, it’s a Kinden. I will just say just to finish off on this to be absolutely clear, that my recommendation is to – and this might sound a little bit old school or a bit of a hard line to take – my recommendation is to only use cellphones in emergencies, particularly in terms of putting them next to your head. Because the science is clear, the dangers. So we’ve got to just very briefly talk because this is super important that people don’t understand that there are dangers and there is hard science on these dangers, and the dangers are these adverse biological effects which are very clear and when we say that it’s true the adverse biological effects is not very sexy because we’re talking about things like it’s damaging the cell membrane which is super important because we’re composed of about 50 trillion cells. So if you start damaging the cell membrane, it’s very bad news.

About calcium influx and outflux in terms of some really good science on this by a gentleman called Dr. Martin Pall who talked about the VGCCs, the voltage-gated calcium channels, and it’s about how this radiation impacts the calcium channels in different ways. One of the ways is letting too much calcium in which causes inflammation and possibly cell death and also just these subtle effects because, again, that’s what plays into the cellphone industry’s hands is because the effects are subtle and they are indeed subtle, but subtle does not mean unimportant or in any way the effects are subtle but they are massive. They are massive and significant and profound. What happens is just a whole cascade of chemical reactions that take place in your body, notably oxidative effects, notably creation of free radicals which people have heard about that. When we’re creating free radicals, not good news, folks. Effects on the mitochondria, there’s a lot more to talk about that also. The mitochondrias in your cell, it’s like a little power plant in your cell and there are people that are saying, “Well, if the mitochondria is good then you’re good, you’re in good health.” And this cell phone radiation impacts the mitochondria. It affects your enzymes. Enzymes are like the proteins, the building blocks which are making your cells, and the cellphone radiation impacts your DNA because there’s this other thing about “okay, no, cellphones are okay because they don’t impact your DNA.” They do. They create a single and double strand breaks of DNA.

So the effects, and that’s only a few. Blood-brain barrier effects also; affects your blood-brain barrier. You’ve got a membrane protecting your brain. It affects that and that’s one of the reasons that electrically sensitive people get headaches because of that and also a lot gut and intestinal issues. There’s a lot of research on the blood-brain barrier. Very little on the gut here, intestinal issues, and I’m convinced that that is great. There’s a big gluten problem at the moment, a lot of people with food intolerance and so on. I believe this is related to these exposures also.

So that is just very quickly the science. It’s over most people’s heads but it’s important just to mention. But what people don’t understand is when you talk about cancer, when you talk about Alzheimer’s disease, when you talk about Parkinson’s disease. All these neurodegenerative diseases which we got now which are just rampant. And also, infertility which is what we’re talking about today. So the effects are widespread, very significant but subtle at the same time.

39:09 CL: I want to drop something in and we don’t have time to discuss it because I want to go into practical tips. But for those who are listening and go, “Okay, well, maybe I’ll stop using my cellphone in my home. I’ll just use my cordless phone.” We can’t really go into it now because I want to go into the practical as I said, but Lloyd on his website Electricsense.com has plenty of information and research about the cordless phone which unfortunately is not –

LB: Just as a very quick aside, if I may, in my view, the cordless phone is even worse than the cellphone if you’ve got those in your home. Worse. And I go into that and there are again, this is not just Lloyd making this up, there are studies notably out of Sweden, Dr. Hardell, which really is the best science we’ve got on this, a very strong science.

39:59 CL: I know. It’s like “ooh, bummer.” One thing I want to ask you, so I turn my phone in the car, I turn it on airplane mode. I had GPS going. I turned it on airplane mode and the GPS continued and that was my first time I realized that I could use GPS in airplane mode and then I was like, “Oh, what’s going on here?”

LB: So what’s happening because this is evolving all the time. I mean, of course, again, the cellphone industry that are making these cell phones, they know about this problem. Because they employed a guy called Dr. George Carlo and they spent $25 million back in the early 90s to prove that cellphones were safe and he came out and proved the opposite. So then now, there’s a problem. But even before that, they kind of suspected it very strongly, but this is very, very clear and so it’s a big problem for them because they’ve got a lot to lose obviously when kind of everybody wakes up.

So, yeah, the science is very clear and really in terms of cellphones, the most important thing, and I have to say this to your audience because I’ve got kids, is for pregnant women, honestly, the American Association of Pediatrics have come out and spoken about this. Honestly, if you’re pregnant, you do not want to be using a cellphone at all. We say text, don’t talk. But honestly, avoid it. Avoid it. And yeah, it is a hard line and I might be a killjoy for saying this but the most important thing I have to share is my experience because anybody can read the studies, but the reason I read the studies is because I had this experience. If I’m telling people this, the reason I started talking about this is because I’ve got kids and I just couldn’t sit there knowing what I knew and not share this information. So this information is there and honestly, people, it’s worth particularly if you’re trying to get pregnant or if you got kids, then take it and there are some steps which I’d like to share with you about this.

42:34 CL: I’ve been in the health field a long time and I’ll tell you I feel like people who are listening will be really motivated to take some steps. I guess I don’t have faith that they’ll go “I’m going to totally eliminate this out of my life.” There’s going to be like 1 to 2 percent that go, “Yes, I am feeling some effects of this. I’m really motivated.” So let’s just talk about I guess the real life scenario of the 98 percent of us who are going “This is staying in our lives but we want to…”

LB: Some simple tips. Honestly, I’m not here to convert people. I’m just here to tell the truth and you’ve heard the expression “the truth hurts” and the truth I’m sharing is a little bit brutal, I realize that. And people that are perhaps using a cellphone to do their job or use some wireless, they’re actually working in an office where there is wireless accessory. So there are so many things that you can do and really, what you can do, what you need to do is focus on your home because that is an area that you control by and large. So what I recommend strongly is that you banish all wireless from your home if possible. That will be my top recommendation. If you’re not ready to take that step, then what I strongly suggest if you do have Wi-Fi is at least you pull the plug on it at night. Because if you’re sleeping, why do you need the Wi-Fi router/modem thing there radiating you all night? You do not. Do yourself a favor. Pull that thing out. You’re fine, you’ll sleep a lot better. And literally, when I say pull it out, pull it out, don’t start playing around in the settings and what. Pull it out from the wall. That way, you know it’s off. Unless you’ve got an EMF meter, you can’t be sure. Because again, this is the thing about what you were saying before about the cellphones and the GPS. Because the technology is evolving and these things have got for instance the most modem routers now, they have double antenna in them, so they have one public and one private. And this is the way it’s going with 5G because with these technologies people want more and more of this, so that’s what we’re going to give them, more and more. So there’s going to be more and more little antennas everywhere. So it’s going on every lamp post, it’s going to be on every street sign, it’s going to be everywhere. This is part of it, is incorporating these devices, this public Wi-Fi into people’s private Wi-Fi installations.

So yes, switch that thing off at night. Banish everything wireless and as far as possible. Even if you don’t have an EMF meter and you think you’ve got rid of everything wireless, I guarantee you haven’t because everything is wireless now. Because when you think about wireless, you think about your cordless phone perhaps, you think about your cell phone, you think about your Wi-Fi router thing there. But you don’t think about your washing machine, about your dishwasher, about your oven, about your refrigerator. All these things are being fitted with smart technology because they’re linking up to the smart meter and the idea is that all the data because we’re interested in the data, all that data is being transmitted back. So all these devices are emitting this radiofrequency radiation and so the question, while I’m reading your mind now, you say, “Well, yeah, why would I get rid of wireless if there’s wireless everywhere in any case?” Because it’s cumulative. This is perhaps the second.

So the first thing I said to you, remember, was distance is your friend. Second thing is cumulative, as in cumulative effects. All this radiation has a cumulative effect and it’s cumulative in two senses. It’s cumulative in the sense that if you got the Wi-Fi, the dishwasher, your iron even, everything is wireless now, correct? Then this is all like adding in to the density of this radiation which we know is very detrimental to our health and then we have this cumulative in the sense that over time, you’re fine, you’re fine, you’re fine, you’re fine, like with me because there was nothing to suggest that boom, from one day to the next, I would suddenly become symptomatic. So you’re fine, you’re fine, you’re fine and then one day, well you’re not fine.

47:33 CL: Yeah. Tipping point effect.

LB: Tipping point effect. And then you start to take action, believe me, big time.

47:42 CL: So I’m going to assume that your beautiful village house isn’t a smart house.

LB: It is not.

47:52 CL: You can’t push a button and those curtains are going to go up.

LB: I’ve got them to the side of me because I thought maybe you’d want to see them. I have just, yeah, not every EMF meter on the meter but I’ve got lots because I review them for my website. But yeah, so I check. That’s the advantage really and this is kind of more for the 2 percent maybe, let’s hope, that want to really go further on this would be to actually invest in and notice how I say invest because it’s one of the best investments you can make is to actually invest in all these devices – a sensitive EMF meter. Then you can actually check in your home and believe me, you will have some surprises. Something you think, “Well, why is that wireless? The electric toothbrush?” I don’t know if they are but I’m just saying. You think, “Wow! That cannot be.” It’s wireless and everything is going wireless.

48:51 CL: I feel so bad for kids these days because since in utero they’ve never not been exposed to a ton of EMFs. And now in the classrooms. I mean, schools are thought of as high ranked if kids get the iPad in the classroom at an early age. I’m just educating myself but when I hear that, I think that’s not a plus in my book.

LB: Yes. I’m an optimist and despite all this, I’m an optimist and I guess maybe that’s one of the things that helped me is that I’m an optimist and I’ve always believed that I could overcome this thing. But I believe that we as a society can overcome this thing, and I believe that there is a growing awareness of this and certainly in the work I’m doing and it’s true that I’ve got my head down to the ground on this and so it’s difficult for me to be objective because it’s pretty much EMFs all day long so like when I’m in my office, my office is at home, then that’s pretty much all I do. But then when I go out of that office, then I’m very lucky that I can just forget and become normal at least to EMF. But yeah, I’m optimistic about this that the world is going to wake up to what is really going on because people are having the world pulled out of their eyes about this and this is, again, this is not why I’m obsessed with meters, because there is some controversy and some unpleasant things being done and there is some manipulation, it is true. But this is not what I’m interested in. What I’m interested in is solutions and helping people.

50:42 CL: I like that. I’m glad you’re optimistic. I guess for me, like we use that word “seductive”. Because there’s so much technology coming out that we all sit and go “oh my gosh, that’s amazing” and we applaud it. And it’s so beautiful and seductive and just what is this going to open for us as a society. We’re just looking at that in that direction and so then it’s kind of a dismal look back “Oh, but this…” So it’s confusing.

LB: I get that totally and I get that it is progress in many ways. But at the same time, when you understand the science a little bit, there is a big dumbing down with this technology and what it’s doing on a biological level, literally dumbing down. Even with regards to what you’re saying about this seduction, it’s not by accident. It’s not just because I love Macs and it works so much better than PCs. Computers are so beautiful and seductive and this is an old one here I’m speaking to you on but it’s still beautiful. But just beyond that, in terms of what these frequencies actually do, because you know our world is all about frequency and there’s few people that realize, one of the people that realized this was a gentleman called Nikola Tesla who’s known is the father of electricity and he said if you want to understand the secrets of the universe, think of terms of energy frequency and vibration. I heard that about maybe 10 years ago and everything I read and everything I’ve learned since then has only reinforced that. So frequency is super important and everything has a frequency, and I could talk about that for hours. That’s something completely different.

But what I’m saying is that these frequencies that are being used, I do not believe they’re being used by accident. And these frequencies have certain effects on our brains, our physiology which is it’s a bit like, for instance, what they put in the cigarettes to make people become addicted, it’s the same thing on a frequency. It’s very, very powerful. So yeah, there is that. And again, I believe that there will be where what goes in cycles, everything is a cycle, the seasons are a cycle, there’s the sun, moon and stars. It’s cycles. And I believe it’s actually taken place now that there is this growing awareness and it’s snowballing and that people will become aware that this technology is not good for them. That there are these advantages but wow, the downsides are huge.

54:06 CL: This conversation that we’re having, we’re not the only ones having this conversation. Thousands and thousands of people around the world and yet I guess it’s not a common everyday conversation. There’s a lot of people who will be listening to this and go, “I really had no idea about this” and this will be their first exposure to it. But think about it. If you’re listening to this conversation and you’re going “Huh, okay. Well maybe I should consider this.” Literally go back, we’re 2018 now and it was only like 30 years ago that people started talking about the tobacco industry and it literally was a fringe conversation because the ads were so seductive. Doctors were smoking. Doctors were like gods back then.

LB: Exactly.

54:58 CL: And beautiful women were smoking cigarettes in these ads and they were on TV and to talk about that tobacco was that harmful, it was like, “Oh, maybe. I’ll wait till the science comes out.” Because these images are so powerful. You look at the youth today. To own an iPhone is to be part of something higher. And what does it say about you? You’re connected to something so hip and cool and it connects you to a huge network of the world through Facebook and social media and things like that. So you’re fighting against a huge message. And I literally started looking at EMF exposure with digital alarm clocks back in the early 90s. That was the problem back then, right? Was that EMFs? Because it was like “ooh, digital alarm clocks” that’s dangerous and we’re sleeping near them and that was 30 years ago and now I guess no one’s using those anymore. And now I’m still blanking in it. It’s like that’s how strong that message is that we need this technology. Thank you for being out there and educating and really being courageous in this.

LB: To respond to that, I’m not in a fight here. I’m not in a fight with anybody. I’m just telling the truth and people want to hear the truth. Not everybody wants to hear this, I know that. But this is the truth I’m telling you here. And people saying, “Well yeah, the truth is what you make it.” You don’t have to take my word for it.” In fact, don’t take my word for it. Just look at the independent sites. There are some very good authoritative websites on the internet now. And it’s not just Lloyd saying this. There is some very strong science. Just one thing I want to also say with solutions is which are just very, very briefly, is in terms of your home, the one place really because I always say to people don’t obsess about it much because that’s the first thing is when people actually do begin to really measure this thing, then they’re like, “Oh my God. I’ve got to get rid of my cell phone.”

57:23 CL: Crazy-making, yeah.

LB: Don’t obsess. But if you are going to obsess, there is one place you should be obsessing and that’s your bedroom, and your bedroom is super important. It’s super important to make a sleeping sanctuary there, a place because it’s when you sleep that your body heals. If your body can’t heal, then this is when you’re going to get to this tipping point, as you mentioned earlier, so much quicker. So it’s all back to the cells again, the cellular rejuvenation, regeneration, detoxification, melatonin. Suppression of melatonin which is again, there’s so much to talk about there and there’s so much science on this, but if there’s one place really where you don’t want that cellphone, where you don’t want any Wi-Fi exposures, not just possible. If the neighbor’s got them, that’s okay, that doesn’t give you an excuse not to switch your Wi-Fi off because again, distance is your friend. Because again, it’s the cumulative exposures. So there’s lots you can do and yeah, just start baby steps. Baby steps, that’s the way to go on it.

58:32 CL: When you were talking about mitochondrial issues or cellular engines in the body, Dr. Iva Keene who has been in the field of natural fertility for the last 11 years, when I asked her what’s the number one issue today, well there’s two major issues that she’s seeing that are causing fertility issues. One is low sperm quality. Only 4 percent of sperm need to be considered normal for a man to be considered fertile, which is crazy, it’s gone down considerably. Then the other one for women and men is mitochondrial issues, is what’s causing most infertility issues. So going back to what Lloyd said about EMFs affecting mitochondria and therefore fertility.

I love the sleep thing because there’s so many people with sleep issues especially women, oh my gosh. I mean 9 out of 10 women, they’ll complain about insomnia, either difficulty falling asleep, difficulty staying sleep. I always say clear the electro smog out of the bedroom, the Wi-Fi, the devices. Even that blue light that comes off the screen, the exposure to that with the pineal gland, it affects sleep.

LB: Correct. Also, Charlene, there is barely a symptom that you could say to me that I could think about that I could imagine, that you could imagine that I couldn’t say, well that, EMFs can cause that or contribute to that in some way. That is how super important or pervasive this is, these EMFs. And you say well yeah, there are so many other important topics. What about pesticides and GMOs and I’m not saying that’s not important too but there’s something about EMFs when you start looking at it, is that it is what I call the mother of all toxins. I talk about EMFs and EMFs is important obviously, but at the same time, I’m not saying it’s all about EMFs. What it really is about is it’s about the EMFs plus the rest, plus the rest. That’s what it is. The thing is that EMFs reacts and interacts with all those things because it affects the pesticides, it affects the air we breathe, it affects everything.

61:13 CL: Tipping points again.

LB: This is why it really does deserve if you’re health conscious, if you’re having a baby, that is for me, obviously that’s just children and babies, it’s super important. The pregnant mothers know about this. The young people know about this. The parents know about this. Everybody knows about this. But certainly in terms of our kids we have a duty to protect the young and as a parent, I’m a parent, to watch over our kids. We have a duty in society. Our role in society as an adult is to be responsible and to protect our loved ones from these dangers, and the dangers are so real. Clear and present danger.

62:12 CL: I really appreciate the work that you do. I know you’ve put in exhaustive hours in putting together your website. It has so much information on there and you really come from the heart and you’re just a sincere person who really is heartfelt in your message and you don’t from a scare tactic place. Like you say, you’re speaking the truth, not based on Lloyd’s world but based on the research that’s out there.

LB: The more I speak, because you know, we came on and I said to you let’s just go into it because everything I say to you off air is the same as what I say on air. There’s not like two Lloyds. Because I do interviews too and sometimes people say to me, “Did you edit?” And I said, “No, I do not edit.” So my interviews go as is and I only edit if my guests ask me to edit because I’ve got nothing to hide. The second thing is I do make money from what my website and I’m not ashamed to make money because I realized actually I started my website for two years and never made any money at all, and then I realized if I was going to do this properly, then I needed to be able to earn a living from it and so I decided was going to do an ethical business, and that’s what I do. So I have created ebooks and products and I do coaching and so on and so forth. But there is nothing here that it’s with the purest of intentions and that’s for people obviously to decide, I can say that and it’s easy for me to say that, but make your own mind up, folks. It’s not about me anyway, the EMF thing. It’s way more that. But I’m just doing my very small part.

64:01 CL: Oh yeah, absolutely. If someone’s trying to conceive out there, I hope they just get the message that they can take some practical steps as far as they want to take it. That’s up to you individually. But the science is out there. Especially for men. I mean, for men really, compared to like improving egg quality, it’s fairly simple to improve sperm quality, keeping that cellphone out of your pocket for one and putting it right next to your heart would be… no, I’m just kidding. Because men take it out of the pocket and they put next to their heart like, “Oh geez, you need to get it a man purse.”

LB: How many people are getting hip replacements these days?

64:47 CL: Oh my gosh.

LB: So is that the cell phones? We don’t know. But, wow. So that’s the way Lloyd’s brain works now. The thing is when you think about these things, nearly everything you think about and then you see the studies, because I’ve been doing this for quite a while now, reading studies, and then the study comes out and backs up what you thought maybe a few years ago. So yeah, it is a big deal, this thing. And just some small step, just start somewhere. Like I say, you can achieve a 10,000 reduction in exposure just by not putting that cell phone next to your ear.

65:29 CL: Oh, I don’t like that feeling. You know what I mean? It’s like hot, you can feel the heat off of it. That one’s easy for me. I don’t like that. Okay, well thank you so much. So once again, can you tell our audience your website, they can find out more information about you.

LB: Yeah. My website is Electricsense.com. It’s all about solutions, mainly about solutions. I would say it’s about 90 percent about solutions and it’s true that today we mainly talked about the problems because we talked about the science a little because it’s by doing that people understand that there is a problem and we’ll actually take action in terms of these solutions. I have a free report on that. In fact, 90 percent of what I do is free. There is so much information on the website and there’s a free report which you can download. There’s newsletters, regular newsletters and there’s a bimonthly podcast where I interview people like scientists and building biologists and really anybody that wants to talk about EMFs and health because that’s my passion.

66:57 CL: You have some great videos on there. The iPad one, once I told my 5-year-old why she could no longer use an iPad, she was cool about it. She got it on some level and hasn’t been on one since, thank God, because I knew in my heart that you don’t put a kid on an iPad. But I needed it kind of a little bit more solidified for me. Watch that video. If you’re using an iPad or your child is, watch that video. It will click on something for you.

LB: Yeah. And something you just said there. Just listen to your heart. Don’t listen to what they’re saying on the TV or on the internet. Just listen to your own intuition on this and I think women are perhaps are more keyed in and it’s easier for them than the men, but yeah, just listen to your heart and it really does not make sense to expose your kids to this or your future kids.

68:00 CL: But your intuition could be disruptive by Wi-Fi, I think too, because a lot of people, I mean, you can kind of get disconnected from that. Because yeah, we have a lot of noise around us. Get educated, that’s the second thing. Get educated then your intuition will tap into that message.

LB: There’s so much we haven’t talked about. About dirty electricity and there is so much, there is a lot on this, but just start somewhere. Just start taking some action in some shape or form and particularly if you have children, honestly, it makes so much sense.

68:43 CL: A couple of things. Do you like that documentary Take Back Your Power about dirty electricity?

LB: Actually, yeah. I actually promoted that when it came out. There was another documentary called Generation Zapped which I promote too. And yeah, the Take Back Your Power, it’s really educating people about how they can – it’s rather a clever title because it’s literally Take Back Your Power in terms of what’s going on with these smart meters which will be deployed and which it seems though people don’t actually have any choice because these smart meters actually pollute electromagnetically also. That’s an important thing to understand. And there are other issues as well in terms of privacy. But yeah, so these actually pollute and people actually have these meters installed. They don’t even realize that the meters are installed, they don’t pay much attention. Then they start and get symptoms. They start to fall sick and there can be lots of different symptoms. So what’s great about this initiative Take Back Your Power which is a website on the internet, it’s free also, is that it actually gives you the tools to say “No, I don’t want that smart meter” probably and “I want to keep the regular analog meter with the guard, the meter guard that comes around. I don’t want my electrical system to be polluted. I don’t want that thing which is going to be emitting radiofrequency radiation 24/7 which I’ve got not power of it.

70:27 CL: I’ve lived in different type of condo-type complexes and there’s always that one condo unit where all the smart meters, unfortunately, they share the wall. So it’s like with the whole complex and you think, “Oh my God, they have like 30 smart meters on their wall.” But anyways, let’s not go down that rabbit hole. I don’t want to blow people’s minds right now. Because there’s those documentaries where it talks about those in a website. You can educate yourself as much as you would like. But educate yourself on that, please. It is well worth it to know. Thank you so much, Lloyd. It was a pleasure. I’ve learned a lot.

LB: It was great speaking with you. Thanks very much.

71:14 CL: You too. Thank you.

LB: Thank you.

71:15 CL: Bye-bye!