Surrogacy and 5 Critical Fertility Questions to Discuss With Your Partner – #33

0:31 Charlene Lincoln: Hi! Welcome back to another episode of The Fertility Hour. I’m your host Charlene Lincoln, and thanks so much for all your support and feedback. It really means a lot to us and I read all your comments, so keep them coming. One last thing. If you found us through Natural Fertility Prescription, that’s great. You can go to TheFertilityHour.com and there’s a ‘free report’ on the top. It’s How to Restore Your Fertility and Get Pregnant Naturally. It was written by my podcast partner Dr. Iva Keene. It has amazing tips and information about obviously restoring your fertility. I highly encourage you to download that report. And like, subscribe, and comment. Thank you so much.

Today, we have a very special guest. Her name is Tiffany Jo Baker, and I’ll tell you a little bit about her. She hasn’t experienced infertility herself but infertility has definitely impacted her life in a major way, experiencing five rounds of IVF, two dropped cycles, a D&C, hysteroscopies and countless injections as a surrogate. She’s carried two sets of twins and one single precious baby for three families dealing with infertility. She’s been part of the Trying to Conceive Support Community since 2010. Throughout the journey in helping others birth their dreams as well as going for her own dreams, she has learned the importance of faith, support, peace, and a plan. Today she coaches women and couples through the emotional, spiritual and practical parts of navigating the path to parenthood, all while helping them thrive through infertility.

Welcome, Tiffany.

Tiffany Jo Baker: Thanks, Charlene. I’m so excited to be here.

2:28 CL: Me too. Thank you so much. I don’t know anyone who’s a surrogate and so I’m really fascinated by that world and so I’m assuming that our audience will. So I know we are going to talk about kind of our main topic is going to be about the Top 5 Questions to Ask and Answer With Your Spouse When Trying to Conceive. I’m really looking forward to that because I think, obviously, that’s an important conversation and sometimes it’s a difficult conversation to ask, so I’m really interested in the type of questions that you recommend that we kind of plan to talk about with our spouse. But talk to me a little bit about being a surrogate and how did that come to be.

TB: Yeah. I had never in a million years would have thought that I would be a surrogate and be pregnant a bunch and I’d go through that route. But it actually happened early on in my marriage when we actually got pregnant with our second daughter. I remember going to work and telling a good friend of mine that we were pregnant, and right then I saw the look of pain and joy flash across her face all at the same time. Right then, it hit me, number one, that she was dealing with infertility because she had never said anything to me about it. And number two, that God had given me a gift and right then just something in my heart was just birth and I thought to myself I would do that, I would carry somebody else’s children.

4:08 CL: Oh my gosh. Did you say it right then? You’d go home and talk to your hubby, I’m not sure about that one.

TB: Oh, it was quite the process. It actually took about 4 years until my family was at the position because it’s a big, it’s a major life decision to be a surrogate, to carry somebody else’s children. So it took about 4 years. We stopped at two for our family. So after I had our youngest, I took about 4 years to really get to the place where we knew that that was the right time. We had researched it, talked to girls about it, talked to the family and was just at the place to actually submit an application to a surrogate agency.  

4:52 CL: I see. When I was reading you story, was the first time for your best friend? Correct me if I’m wrong.

TB: Yeah. No, it wasn’t and I’ve heard those stories and they’re so amazing. But I actually went through a surrogate agency all three times that I was surrogate. So it was for couples each time that I did not know prior that we were actually joined to the journey, through the process and became lifelong friends through it.

5:19 CL: Oh my gosh. So you’re carrying someone else’s child. What’s the emotional process of that? I mean, because you’re bonding with that baby. I don’t know. How does that even feel for you?

TB: Yeah. I think the number one question that I get asked are along those lines. “What was it like to carry somebody else’s baby?” “What was it like to give up the baby when you deliver?” I think the easiest way for me to explain it, is I’m a very logical person versus someone who is very emotional. So I first filter my world through being logical. So logically, I knew what my role is and I knew what role it was—and that was to help other parents grow their family like my family had been blessed to have children. So that was my role; I knew it going in. I saw myself more like an aunt or a god mom, somebody who’s a piece of the puzzle and a super nanny for 9 months I guess, carrying the baby through that process. But definitely as far as bonding, I was definitely connected and invested but it’s not like carrying your own baby. It’s not like that. My goal through the process was helping the parents feel connected and the parents to be a part of the process along the way.

6:54 CL: I just imagine they were kind of wanting to know everything and I mean, there’s that constant communication. You must be a little bit, for lack of a better word, a little crazy being the parents outside of it because there’s only so much you can control in that situation and they’re really relying on you for any communication about the baby. Do they go to the doctor’s appointments with you?

TB: They do. And every surrogate and intended parent relationship is so different. I was blessed to have all three of my journeys, all the parents. So I live in North Texas so I had parents who were as far away as 6.5 hours and even the fact that was out of state. But all three of the families were at every single doctor’s appointment. If not both parents, at least one of the parents.

7:52 CL: That’s a lot.

TB: Yes. Which can be very unique. Some surrogates don’t even meet, especially if it’s an international surrogate and intended parent relationship. Some parents and surrogates don’t even meet until the birth. So it’s different in each circumstance and that’s part of the process, is figuring out what kind of relationship do you want. Some people want a business relationship. Some people want a hands-on friendship, family-like relationship. So that’s definitely part of the process and each of my families were different, but blessed to be really invested and a part of it along the way.

8:29 CL: Do you enjoy being pregnant?

TB: I love it, yes.

8:31 CL: You do.

TB: Yes, I love it. I feel good. I didn’t really have morning sickness other than an occasional kind of, I call it a “blah” feeling where you don’t really feel like eating and you really should. So more of a “blah” feeling but other than that, I just feel really good. I love being pregnant. Great deliveries. And I think most of all just a wonderful support system in my own world and my own life through my husband, friends, and family to allow me to do this for other people.

9:04 CL: Were the families asking you like what kind of diet do you intend to eat during the pregnancy, what kind of supplement—like that type of question?

TB: So a lot of that could be handled in the initial legal contract type procedures. Really those lifestyle questions. Those other things that you want to ask and put into the application process, so those are the type of questions that are in your initial application, in your kind of bio and profile that the parents can use when selecting a surrogate and then those are definitely conversations that you have. And general lifestyle questions are also kept in the contract as far as alcohol and travel and things like that that can play a role throughout the process and things that really matter to them, they’ll put in the contract.

9:56 CL: Wow. Okay. I’m just imagining myself in that I would feel like you want to kind of micromanage the situation and you’re like, “Oh, are you going to eat that?” Oh my gosh. I might be a nightmare.

TB: And I think I’ve heard people trying to find surrogates and I think that’s part of the process, is finding somebody that maybe you have a similar lifestyle with, that you have similar core values and you kind of believe the same things and live the same way so that you can trust that person through the process and don’t feel like you have to micromanage. Now, they’re definitely part of some surrogate Facebook groups and so I’ve heard some stories, and I totally get it. You know, when you’re carrying those babies for somebody else, I absolutely get the thoughts and the concern and that’s why I think the match is so important, that you’re matched with the right person so it can be easier on you and on them in the process.

11:07 CL: Are you going to be a surrogate again in your lifetime?

TB: Well, this is what I say. I’m 99 percent sure that I’m not but I’m open. I didn’t think I would do the third. I didn’t think I would do the third one. So after carrying two sets of twins and then the single, you know, I’ve had three C-sections. So I have been cleared. My doctor has said I’m okay to do it. I’m just open to seeing. And actually the last family is considering maybe a sibling journey so we’ll see what happens. So I’m open to it but I don’t think I’ll pursue it, let’s put it that way.

11:46 CL: Okay. I would think you would be in high demand. You probably don’t have to pursue it, do you?

TB: I get asked pretty often, yes.  

11:56 CL: Okay, wow. So when you work, kind of what is something unique that you bring to the table when you work with couples with fertility? Because it seems like you’re working kind of on a spiritual level and talk a little bit about kind of the unique perspective that you bring when you work with couples.

TB: I definitely think I bring a unique perspective because being a part of the Trying to Conceive support community since 2010, not going through it myself but being along the journey with families and experiencing all the fertility treatments. So I’ve been in the world of the fertile and in the world of the infertile. I’m kind of like that bridge. I can be that voice between support systems, between family and friends, helping couples build not just an online support system because so many people are connected through social media but an everyday life support system and learning how to navigate the triggers in real life and the family and friends things. But really, also prior to being a fertility support coach, I was a couples coach since 2010. So I really worked with couples and families through premarital birthing dreams, blended families. So really, my sweet spot are couples and working with them especially since we most of the time marry somebody that’s the complete opposite to us. So navigating the ups and downs with somebody that sticks with you. People grieve differently when they experience a loss. People decide differently when they’re going through these big decisions. So you’ll find usually a husband and a wife. One will be the emotive, will be more emotional; and one will be more logical. One will look more into the research of the procedures and the things; and one will be more led by what they feel like they should be doing. So really helping couples navigate those big decisions together, deal with the ups and downs together and really using it to help strengthen their marriage through the process no matter what the end result might be.

14:13 CL: Because it’s hard on marriages, right?

TB: Absolutely. Well, you look at just normal everyday life with the divorce rate of 50 percent, let alone throw in infertility, I think the saddest comment/message I’ve ever gotten on Facebook was from a lady that was 5 days away from delivering her miracle baby and she just messaged me and said, “Tiffany, thank you for helping marriages through this process.” She said, “I got the baby but I lost my man. And through this process he’s now with a new family and I’m about to give birth to our baby.”

14:48 CL: I hear that story or people go, “Yeah, we finally had a baby,” and then they divorce like a month. I mean, I know it’s complicated and who knows what happens. But then aren’t we shocked and you’re like, “Wow, that’s the most bonding experience.” But there’s so many things that happen prior to that that it became an extra stress, I guess.

TB: Absolutely.

15:14 CL: Then you really get to know, a lot of people go, “We have completely different parenting styles,” and then it only becomes evident once the baby comes, and that’s a whole other set of things. But if you’re listening, don’t worry about that now. Just focus on the other thing. You’ll figure it out.

You talked about one person being more emotional, one person being more logical and conflicts coming up with that. But what are some of the things that you feel like really make it difficult for couples in this type of situation and with fertility challenges?

TB: I think expectations. We come in to life with certain expectations, come into marriage with certain expectations. We’re going to get off birth control and we’re going to get pregnant and we’re going to have babies. So we comment and we have these expectations and then life doesn’t meet up with our expectations, and that in itself is a process of navigating because you’re almost grieving that dream, that life, that expectation to begin with. So that is something that has to be navigated, is really navigating unmet expectations because that can grow into sadness and depression and bitterness and so you have to deal with that and be able to deal with that well in order to move forward and be healthy.

16:48 CL: What about when one person feels like they’re to blame? They’ve been diagnosed with something. I mean, a lot of times the spotlight is on women though more and more we’re finding out that sperm quality is a big contributing factor. But women feel like it’s on them, whether they are told they have poor quality eggs or whatever the situation is. So is it kind of that guilt and blame game that kind of shows up as well?

TB: Yes, it definitely can be and I focus a lot on decision-making and unity between the couples, and that it’s a “we” journey, it’s not an “I’ journey. It’s not “I am having a hard time getting pregnant”; it’s “We are having a hard time getting pregnant.” So even practically speaking, I help couples really talk in “we” talk and “us” talk, not just “I” talk. Research has shown that couples that actually when they’re talking about life in terms of “we”, “our”, “us” actually show more marriage satisfaction and those that talk more like “I” and “my” are less satisfied and more depressed in their relationship. So even things like that on refocusing, reframing their journey that is in our marriage vows (for better or worse, in sickness and in health) and making decisions together so that whether you fail or succeed together, there’s not somebody that you do blame in the process.

18:24 CL: Absolutely. And I’m going to be really stereotyping here. But you know the stereotype of men just want to fix, like what advice do you give to men instead of like “let’s fix this” because it’s not a simple switch that you switch on or you can’t call a handyman type of situation. So what’s the advice for the male partner?

TB: I think I take that as kind of a couple approach actually. It’s finding if the male, if his role and if his gifting is finding a fix, then we use that in the process. Because the wife and the husband will each have certain roles. They’ll each have certain gifts that they can bring to the journey. So it’s really being able to figure out what do you bring, what kind of gifts and skills can you bring to the journey to help it. So if you are a fixer, then maybe you’d be a great researcher. So why don’t we have you research this program and this program, or this clinic, or this diet. And then come back and let’s discuss it and figure out how that plays a role or if that should play a role in the process.

19:40 CL: I like that. Okay, instead of just throwing darts at the dart board, “what about this, what about this”, and the person is feeling so emotional and overwhelmed and almost just wants to be listened to and kind of held in that time instead of, you know, felt like vomited all over with the solutions. Or “I just read this bunch of stuff on the internet, I don’t even know where, I just went down this big rabbit hole and I just gathered all this information, I’m just throwing it on you because I’m feeling desperate to make this feel better between us.” Yeah, okay.

Help me remember, it was the top questions you need to —

TB: Yeah, the top 5 questions for couples to ask and answer each other during infertility while trying to conceive. So there’s definitely some things that couples want to come together and decide and ask at each stage because as we know, as you’re going through the journey, there’s going to be some ups, there’s going to be downs. Hopefully it’s a quick journey for you. But if it’s not, the worst thing you can do and the saddest thing that I hear sometimes from couples is “I wish we would have.” And couples that kind of get stuck in a close place instead of an open place of being open to however or whatever they’re supposed to do on the journey, sometimes people come in and just kind of get stuck and I would never do that. That’s kind of even when I said “I’m 99 percent sure that I’m not going to be a surrogate again. But I’m open to it.” I think it’s important to be open to move forward in what you’re supposed to do but still be open along the way. So, do you want me to go ahead and start with the 5 questions?

21:24 CL: Sure. But finish that statement like what are some of the things they say. “I wish we would have” what.

TB: I wish I would have seen a fertility specialist sooner. Some people don’t even realize that they’ve been trying for a year and not pregnant, that that’s considered infertility if you’re under 35. So some people don’t even realize. Or “I wish I would have gotten healthy.” “I wish I would have just gone for it and taken the risk.” “I wish I would have known then what I know now about egg quality when I was younger.” “I wish I would have frozen my eggs.” There’s so many things and, of course, hindsight is 20/20. I’ve heard “I wish I would have done IVF.” Or “I wish we would have used a surrogate.” “I wish I would have been open to adoption.” So all of those things now, decades later that they are realizing that they weren’t open to it at the time and now they wish they would have.

22:33 CL: When they feel like they’re at the end of, we’re at the end of the line or something. They just feel like it isn’t happening for them.

TB: Yes. Or actually couples who have been childless and now are older. I’ve heard a lot from couples who are childless and just didn’t keep going and weren’t open to other options and are older and are adjusting to their lifestyle.

23:03 CL: Okay. So let’s go through the questions.

TB: Yeah. So the top 5 questions to ask and answer for couples who are trying to conceive. So the number 1 question is to ask what matters most to us. So as a couple, really figure out what matters most to us. Is it most important that we get pregnant or that we can become parents? Is it most important that we don’t do fertility treatments and we do it all natural? Or what? So it’s really those kind of your core values, what matters most to you because these are the things that are going to drive your decision-making process. Those things that you would say “I would never do” or those things that you would say “I would do.” So finding out those things you’re willing to do to become parents and those things you’re not willing to do to become parents.

23:58 CL: Those are important questions.

TB: So that’s number one, what matters most to us. Number two, is what roles and strengths do we both bring to this journey. And I’ve kind of hit on that a little bit earlier. What roles and strengths do we both bring to the journey? Most likely they’re different because we often marry somebody who’s opposite or different from us in a lot of areas. So if one of you are a numbers person or a researcher, use that. Bring that to the journey instead of sometimes I hear from the wives that they feel like they’re all alone on the journey. They’re the ones going to the doctor’s appointments, they are the ones that are researching. But it’s a two-way street. So as husbands, as spouses, as partners, what role/what can you bring to the journey? What can you offer? What are your gifts? And bring that. We need those things together to really have a clear picture of the ins and the outs and the ups and the downs and not getting frustrated in the process that your spouse or your partner isn’t dealing or seeing it or moving forward the way you are in your timing.

25:17 CL: I love that because by bringing the strengths then you can define the roles. I mean, because I could see a man going, “What exactly…?” Your spouse wants to be helpful but probably just needs it defined. “Oh, I can actually do that. I understand that part of it.”

TB: Yes.

25:37 CL: Okay. Nice.

TB: Yes. Okay, so that was number two. So number three, how will we make decisions? So it’s very important, is how do you make decisions as a couple. Because normally, a lot of times one person kind of drives the ship. But something like infertility is such a big decision, such a big part of your life, it’s important that couples come together, unite, and make decisions together. Like I said earlier, if it ends up being just one person making the decision, then if it fails, the other one, it’s easy to be blamed in the process because you kind of overtook the situation. You did it your way and you move forward without the agreement of the other person. So it’s important to figure out how do you make decisions and just something practical is not making decisions in the heat of the moment or right after a failed cycle or right after a negative pregnancy test that you don’t make decisions in the heat of the moment or in the depths of a hormonal cycle but that you make it when you both are able to discuss it, you are in a clear place, you are in a good place emotionally and spiritually and that you can make decisions in full faith and a full piece of how you’re supposed to move forward.

26:57 CL: Okay, so you set those clear parameters. We don’t do it after this, we don’t do after this situation. I’m sure with some couples, like going through IVF there’s so many hormonal ups and downs and things like that, they might go, “Great. How are we going to make a decision?” because everything is just so emotional and kind of a lot of upheaval during that time, anxiety, and just the whole emotional gamut. But then I guess you just kind of have to wait a little bit. Take a breather, an awesome space.

TB: Absolutely. Which is another decision to make and sometimes couples make decisions to take a break, and so that’s definitely a decision that sometimes has to be made. Or to press forward, you know. Is it time to try IVF? Is it time to try a natural route? So there’s so many decisions. What professional do we use? Who’s on our team? Those kinds of things. So many decisions. So really identifying how do we make decisions and what do we need to do before we move forward with those decisions. Super important.

28:05 CL: Okay, that is important. Okay, great. Thank you.

TB: Yeah. So number four is, who is on our support team. Who is on our support team? So as couples, we hear a lot about women being in support groups or having support, having friends that they can talk to? But what about the man? What about the partner? But really deciding who are we going to invite into our journey and you know as well as I do that the world of infertility can be a very lonely place, can be a very quiet place. I’m big on Instagram but so many Instagram people have anonymous trying to conceive accounts where their names aren’t even on it, their pictures aren’t even on it because it can be lonely and how they could feel is a shameful place. But it’s important that you don’t do the journey alone. That you’re not going through the ups and the downs and feeling isolated. So I really teach couples and individuals how to build that support system; who do you pick to invite in, who do you pick to not invite in. You have those people that you just know that it’s just not going to be good to have them know what’s going on that’s going to cause more stress.

And some practical tips that I give to couples are there’s two types of people. There’s energy producers and there’s energy demanders. So you want to put people in your life that are energy producers. Who are those people that you get off the phone with and you feel better? You feel good after having a conversation with them. They’re the people that you could talk to. That even if it was something as simple as saying “I can’t talk right now. I’m in a sad place. I just had a negative pregnancy test,” or whatever, “can we talk tomorrow?” And they’re not offended because you’re not in a place to talk. Those people that you don’t have to build up but those people who are open to talking to you about it to build you up and to not be offended in the process if you need some time.

30:15 CL: Absolutely. And do you give advice? Like when I go on infertility-type forums, I know there’s a lot of well-meaning but sort of annoying, to be honest, relatives who just ask, you know, when are you going to start the family or if they know that you’re having infertility issues. You know, you just need to relax or have sex more or something. And people, I see women’s responses on there and they’re like, you know, “I just want to punch my uncle in the face” or something. They just get like, “Are you serious? You think that I haven’t thought of that?” type of thing. Like, do you help them sort of navigate those landmines of holiday get-togethers and all those kind of triggering events.

TB: Absolutely. Those can be the worst. It’s really about coming up with your go-to statements. What are my go-to responses, my go-to statements when somebody asks me why I don’t have kids or when I’m going to have kids or where are the kids? So what are your go-to statements and responses that you just have at the tip of your tongue and you can just say to those people who bring it up in the boardroom or bring it up in the breakroom or bring it up at the church or at a reunion or a holiday. So what can you say? And if you’re a smirky person or a funny person, have it be funny or smirky. If you’re a faith person, have it be a statement of faith. If you’re a person who doesn’t want to reveal, then it doesn’t have to reveal. But really coming up with for you, what are your go-to responses that you can use and that you can pre-decide going into those situations what you’re going to do and how you’re going to handle it instead of being caught off guard.  

31:55 CL: Can you give a couple of examples of one? I know you’re saying like it has to kind of fit your personality. But there’s some where you’re like, I’m just saying this because I just need that person to kind of back off a little bit.

TB: Yeah. And if it’s somebody who’s back you just want to be done, I sometimes just say, you know, I just tell them, “No, we’re happy together. We don’t want kids or we don’t need kids,” or whatever. So it’s okay to just kind of close that door so they never ask you again. Some other statements could be like, you know, “When it’s right in God’s timing; or we’re standing in faith, would you pray with us and believe with us?” Or, “Wow! You’re so smart. I never thought about that. We’re going to try having sex tonight.” It could just be you in the process but having those responses that work for you.

32:48 CL: Right. Gosh. You should be a fertility specialist with that brilliant advice. Thank you.

TB: Exactly. Sometimes I have couples do—it sounds silly but it actually can work well, is to have a stupid jar. So literally you have a jar or container or something where you just put those stupid comments that people say. You write them down and you put them in this jar. And it’s something about just writing down and putting it in there and then it’s almost like, I’m going to have mercy for that stupid person. I’m going to have mercy for that stupid mess. Then when you have this stupid comment and you’re like, “Oh, that’s going in the jar. That’s going in the jar.” Like you see it differently because you almost expect it and you have a place to put it instead of having to think about it, think on it, deal with it. It’s like, “Oh, that’s totally going in the stupid jar” and you can just let it roll.

33:47 CL: Honestly, it’s weird. I went through a period where I’d ask young couples, “So when are you going to get married?” I’m like, married or who am I suddenly? The great aunt, the annoying aunt at the table. Like, why am I asking? It’s almost like these small talk type things that people, you know.

TB: I think too if you could really get to the heart of what the person is saying, like you said, it’s not about them trying to dog you because you’re not. Their heart is wanting to have a conversation, wanting to get into your world. It seems just a normal everyday part of conversation. You meet somebody. What do you do? How many kids do you have? It’s just a normal societal cultural thing. But the more and more infertility gets out there, the more and more people can get aware that that’s 12 percent or 15 percent of couples of childbearing age are having a hard time getting pregnant so it’s probably not the best question to have. But as a couple trying to conceive, if you can logically take yourself to that place of what was their heart in that and go there instead of how you felt about it, it will help you deal with it better.

35:03 CL: Do you feel like social media has saved the day for a lot of people suffering from infertility? Do you sometimes feel it’s harmful? I mean, outside of seeing like best friend’s pregnancy, friends at pregnancy announcements and that could be really triggering, but all these support groups, have they been a saving grace for people? Is there kind of a dark side to it as well?

TB: There’s absolutely a dark side. I think that the more awareness has been amazing. It’s definitely helped people, family members have a place to go and to figure things out or to look up. There’s so many resources now that if somebody, a family or friend wants to find out about it, they have no excuse because they can look things up, they can figure out their stuff online. But I think for those trying to conceive, there’s so many support groups out there now versus what they’re used to be. But there’s still a block, I feel like. There’s still a block where if you really look at the numbers of people who are going through infertility and those who are willing to invest in their emotional, relational, practical parts of it, whether that’s your support system or through a coach, the numbers are still very small. So I think we still need to do better in giving place to getting help. I think that’s hard because if you’re dealing with infertility, you already can feel like you’re broken let alone to feel like you need to go to a support group for people who are dealing with the same thing. But I think the more awareness and the more we normalize it, the more—I always say, you know, I was a surrogate because I had that gift of pregnancy. But as a business owner, I don’t have the gift of let’s say finances or I don’t have the gift of parenting. There’s always something in our life that that we need help in. Whether that’s being pregnant, whether that’s being a business person, whether that’s being a good friend, whether that’s being healthy in our physical life, we were not created to have all going on and to know exactly what we’re supposed to do every step of the way. So if we can take that stigma that we need to be perfect, that everything needs to work and that we need to know what we’re doing all the time, instead of it being normal, to get help in the areas we need help, I think we become a lot farther a lot faster.

37:32 CL: Absolutely. If you’re a friend or a family member listening to this, how are you a good support? What’s the best action to take? Giving a lot of unsolicited advice or? Just kidding.

TB: On the dos and don’ts list, I would definitely say no. I think it’s important, number one, to be a good listener. Just like the husband who wants to fix, family members and friends feel helpless, they want you to have your heart’s desires and so they want to help you in the process. So I think as a family or friend, that if we can just ask the simple question ‘how can I best help you and support you through this process?’ Then as the person going through infertility, being honest in saying ‘if you could just check in once a month,’ or I’ve had couples who with their support system after maybe they go through a treatment or they take a pregnancy test, they just tell their support system ‘if I don’t text you, I’m supposed to get the results on this day. If I don’t text or call you on this day that means it was a negative.’ So they don’t have to go through the process of the call and just letting them know ‘I’ll reach out to you when I can or feel free to check on me a day or two later’ with a simple text. But it’s navigating those questions ‘how can I support you through the process best’ and then the person who’s trying to conceive, being honest and knowing how they can best be supported and sharing that with them and then just keeping that communication back and forth through it.

39:20 CL: That’s nice. I like that. People who practice a faith and they say, “Well, if it’s in God’s plan…” and then a number of years go by and it’s still not happening—I mean, this is almost another episode. Keeping the faith when things aren’t going as planned. There’s the saying “we plan, God laughs.” So much of life goes differently and sometimes we find through hardship, “Oh wow, there was a bigger plan for me” that is very painful and in that process of it. What’s something that you can kind of give I guess support along that when people go, “Gosh, I thought this was God’s plan for me and it’s not manifesting that way.”

TB: Yeah. I think that in the faith realm, I think the biggest thing is to really for you and your faith, is to go to God and ask him what is this about and just getting a word or something to stand on or a promise or a scripture that can kind of be your battle cry through the process. I think at the end of the day it comes to a matter of faith, a matter of trust. Knowing that even if it doesn’t, the path doesn’t look like you thought, that you trust God through it anyways and that even if it doesn’t end up the way you think it should end up, that God is still good despite. If you look at anybody who has achieved something great, who has gotten their dream, who has changed the world in any way, they had gone through a fight. They have gone through a valley, they have gone through a hard spot and that makes the high so much higher. That makes the result and the dream and the birth and the miracle that much sweeter. So I think sometimes it’s part of our process. It’s part of our path. I don’t believe that God causes it but I believe that God uses it and can be with you along the way to help you through that path.

41:38 CL: Thank you. Now, we were talking about the 5 points and were we at number 4? I’m sorry.

TB: We did. We were at number four. Number four is our support team. Yeah, so who is on support team, so that’s kind of where we went off with talking about how do you support your loved ones and those kind of things. Yeah. So number 5, is how do we keep our life balanced through the journey. How do we maintain the balance?

42:06 CL: That’s a good one. How do we?

TB: How do we get life satisfaction? I do a simple exercise with clients and it’s a life wheel, it’s a basic coaching exercise and you basically take a circle which represents your life. You divide it in 8 slices and you label your top 8 areas of life. So that can be marriage, finances, health, fertility, hobbies, friends and family. So whatever you’re top 8 areas would be, you would kind of label those and then you kind of just write yourself and your life satisfaction, “how would I rate myself in that area? How do I rate my marriage right now? How would I rate our finances? Fun—how do I rate fun?” So I think first having awareness that your life has so much more to it than just the fertility. Because sometimes we can get just so focused on “I’m going to eat a certain way, I’m going to sleep a certain way. I’m going to work to raise the money to do this certain thing,” all leading towards the baby, towards the pregnancy. But we can miss all the other amazing things that are happening in our life, all the other things that we do have going for us. So I think it’s important to really become aware of what you do have in your life, of what’s going well, what’s not going well and then being intentional to move forward to have fun, to have other dreams too that you’re working towards through the process of building your family as well.

43:41 CL: I like that. You seem like such a sweet and kind person and I think kind of a perfect fit to do this type of work. Just dealing with I guess people at their most vulnerable.

TB: Yes. If you grow up your life just wanting to be a mom or you always saw yourself as a mom or you just expected it, I mean, that realization that it’s not as easy or as you probably know, 1 in 4 pregnancies end in loss. So how do you deal with a miscarriage, with a stillbirth? I’ve worked with moms who are still grieving a stillbirth but still wanting more. How do you work through that? It can be such a lonely and a hard place so it’s important for somebody to get it, to understand the world and to also offer hope and offer answers on how you can thrive through infertility and that’s what I always try to do.

44:44 CL: How do we find out more about you?

TB: Yes. Simple answer is going to TiffanyJoBaker.com. You can be connected to my social media. I have some free resources on there. Learn more about me, my coaching, and I’d be happy to answer any question that anyone has.

45:03 CL: Thank you so much. I’m putting you on the spot here, but leave us with something to think about or something inspirational or something, just give us a better understanding or whatever is kind of coming from your heart right now.

TB: Okay. I would say go for it. That’s my life motto and if you’re going to do something hard, I would say go for it. So if there’s a decision that you need to make, if there’s something you need to try, if there’s a path you need to take or program you need to be a part of, I would say go for it. You don’t want to live a life of regrets. Of course you want to be led in that direction, you want to be in unity with your spouse. But, go for it.

45:50 CL: I like that. They say that when they interview people at the end of their lives, they regret only the things that they did not do. Right? Because you can regret things you did but you learn from those mistakes because life is full of those and more is lost in indecision. What is it, more is lost in indecision than no decision?

TB: Something like that.  

46:17 CL: I’m sorry.

TB: I have a similar quote. The similar quote is “you can live a life of by design or by default.” So we want to choose to live a life by design, that we are moving forward on a path, on a plan, on a purpose that we have figured out together with our partner and move forward instead of by default and letting things just happen but really taking ownership of our lives and going for it.

46:42 CL: I like that. Thank you so much. It was just wonderful talking with you.

TB: Thank you, Charlene. Appreciate it.

46:47 CL: Alright. Bye, Tiffany. Thank you. I’ll contact you in a couple of weeks when this goes live.

TB: Perfect. Thank you.

46:54 CL: Thank you so much. Bye-bye!

TB: Bye-bye!